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During your day you get time to read something or enjoy a hobby which things you think you grew less and less and less. So the hobby that I am pursuing is ongoing basis is my teaching hobby. You know, I'm fond of music. I am fond of writing but those things I found less time for over the past few years. Yeah and what challenges or hardship you have faced, which most of us don't know. No about actually not a whole lot. I think I've been lucky in my life. Right we come from a middle class family. So we weren't leaving I guess as comfortably as we are used to living now, but I'd never felt that there was hardship in that to the credit of you know, my parents and what they made it out for me. So I think in some sense I have had the privilege to invent my own challenges rather than have those challenges being thrust upon me so even though The notion of doing a start-up is very much driven by choice, you know rather than majority of Indian entrepreneurs small businesses who tend to do a start-up because there is no other alternative. So yeah, I think I'm lucky to be in a position where you know, we have I have the liberty to invent hardships and challenges in between both your entrepreneurial spin stents, you know between 99 and 2005 and 2015 to 2019 were their moments. which you know crushed you as an entrepreneur because maybe in the first in you're not getting funding or the first access to such as well through challenges right jobs ahead went through near-death moments and I'm sure it was stressful at that point in time. But the fact that we were able to come out of it and I think the fact that our teams were fairly cohesive, you know jobsahead Of course I co-founded with Puneet was my partner there and the fact that we could, you know to rely on each other when either of us fell down, I think that's a great asset to have in a start-up setting in Indifi. We have not had financing challenges, right but we've had product Market fit challenges so, you know in some sense and entrepreneurs life is very volatile one day can be great and one day I can be down in the dumps. You know, that's the nature of the Beast. And what are the uncomfortable conversations which you have had with yourself if you like to share so, you know in some sense. My career has been a mix of very irregular transitions, right? So from being a software engineer to doing a start-up in 1999 was fairly unconventional even the move to VC or something which happened a lot by chance VC back to entrepreneurship. Perhaps was a bigger decision. And so The notion of what really gives me the kick and hence. What do I want to do? Next? What is my risk appetite right those are questions that I have deliberated upon at times. Yeah, so far seems to be working out fine. And what are the uncomfortable conversations which you are not willing to have with yourselves aging philosophy. Yeah. Those are things that I want to park for at least one. Other 30 40 years before I start to brush up on them. Do you think you are a spiritual person or you like to meditate? No, not really. I have not tried a lot of that so far. So, you know, I can't claim that it works or it doesn't but just you know, I am a fairly direct task-driven person whether it is my professional life or whether that is how I view my personal engagements. What was the time in life when you felt lost and what help you bounce back? You are not a whole lot at that level of seriousness. You know, I have had a fairly strong group of friends and family all through right? And so things have never really precipitated to a point where you know, I have been you know in sheer dumps emotionally at any point in time. So, you know ups and downs happen, you know, I mentioned to you about our journey our jobsahead Indifi has been equally hard to put together even though one would expect that with no prior experience. You'll do better, but I guess I'm a slow learner. But yeah, it has never been at a point where you know, it felt like was hard to bounce back. So even today every morning when I land up at 8 o'clock here, you know, I mean, I'm energized because there's always some problem to solve. So I think my down moments are moments when I'm not working. right because then I get to think about the problems and when you're working then you get to solve the problems. So morning five o'clock is terrible and then morning eight o'clock is great. Alok do you have fear of anything and does fear drive you to do better? Example fear of failure at yeah, I was thinking about that. I think the good news is you know, I think all of us have some degree of fear and I think fear of failure is fairly natural. I don't think the good news is it hasn't held me back from doing anything right or you could call a start-up as that doing something you could call, you know scuba diving as doing something, but I'm glad that the fear of failure hasn't really held back what I wanted to do. What books have you read recently and which books have saved your life the most? Yeah, so hard to point out your any particular my reading interests are fairly varied. So I read a lot of business entrepreneurship, but I also read a lot of travel and religion, you know religion because I'm interested in society not because I'm spiritual. So I think it's the breadth of reading that really influences of late. You know, I've read a fair bit of math. Odyssey that because my bite size of reading has gone down right? So if now I have 15 minutes to read I want to read 15 minutes and I don't know whether then the next opportunity to read is so I do a lot of puzzle oriented stuff one of the books that I'm reading right now actually links, you know, what happens in society to what happens in math, right? So it's a very interesting book at the intersection of liberal arts and Mathematics. So that that's what I'm reading right now. One thing which I remember from a meeting three years ago at an airport, which I'm about to tell more about that an Alok was reading sapiens at that point of time. Yes, so say sapiens was a great book and then I think the the remarkable thing about that is just the evolution nature of everything. Right the notion that there are some things beyond our control and whether we like it or not. They will happen is a very interesting perspective for an entrepreneur who believes that everything is in our control and we'll make it happen. Right? So I think that intersection I found particularly interesting. What habits do you attribute your success to success is relative, you know, all of us have our own old definitions of success, you know, if I had to pick one thing where I would call myself successful it is in my relationships, right whether that is my family my kids my friends and there I think my little to persist and we direct our things that have helped me. Professionally, I think persistence is one thing that keeps me going. I find it very hard to give up on things and again being direct with people has helped me in my professional relationships as well. You know, it's England. you know, there are people we're being direct with them can just backfire and that has happened but the strong relationships I have professional today are partly because of the fact that those people know exactly where I stand on any issue