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When you reflect back on your three startups and you’ve incrementally built larger and larger companies, right? How do you how did you go about picking these ideas? Maybe walk us through that journey, yeah. Sure. So I've always said that the idea doesn't matter as much really, because it's really the execution that’s going to be the differentiator. In fact as you go through your journey as a start-up founder or as an entrepreneur, you will find that many people will give you lots of good advice and lots of bad advice and you need to kind of pick and choose through how that applies to you in whatever formula? Let me let me try and explain that in a better form. Generally a lot of people say, “Hey, how did you get this idea? How did you get the idea of starting this particular business?”. And I'd say if you were the first person that thought of a business, the probability of you succeeding is extremely low unlike what most people think. Because many people and especially the media. glamorizes this idea of “Hey, that's the first person that came up with it.”. And if you look at history, it's almost in all instances, that the first person that came up with something, didn't necessarily monetize it in the best form. It's really the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th or maybe the 20th that worked on it, that was truly able to build something that became really large within that space. So I would say that anyone that's telling you that you need to have the best idea or a truly original idea... I mean, I don't think that's necessary. I'm not saying that I should discount it entirely but I would say that in your success less than 1% of it is attributed to that initial idea that you had. What's far more important is hey pick an industry that is large and the good part is all industries these days are large. So for instance, let me give you an example of what I mean there. If you look at the Fortune 500 companies or if you look at the top 1000 companies in the world, you'll find that not all of them are from the exact same industry, right? So they cover every industry which basically means no matter where you start and no matter what you do, you can build something large within that space because that vertical is large and the process of building something large in any industry vertical is kind of similar, right? So what you need to do is when you pick a space, whatever space that is, let's say that space is e-commerce or that space is health care or that space is travel or that space is some sort of social interaction. Whatever it is that you know, you come up with and you say that I want to be in that space. So typically the way you should start is take a look at all the large companies in that space and how they are making money and try and get... So sorry, sorry to interrupt. Can we do this in the context of media.net? Maybe how do you thought through that? So sure. So around 2005, I had, I was at the time running the web hosting and domain registration company and I was in and that was a large enough space, but it wasn't the largest space on the, as far as the internet was concerned. And in the way I thought through it was I need to look at my core strengths to figure out how to keep growing long term. And that's what I believe everyone should do. You should know your own core strengths and you should know your own core weaknesses and unlike school, which teaches you some sort of to take every weakness and try and get better and better at it. I'd say you take your core strengths and you double down on your core strengths because that's the stuff that you like and you take your weaknesses and you try and outsource for that and try and get other people to to do what you're not the best at. So my core strengths at the time and now have always been I have been good at Tech. I understand Tech and deep tech really well. I started programming when I was 8 or 9. And so that's definitely something that I was good at and I'm still, you know, pretty good at. The next thing would have been, my next core strength was operational efficiency. I knew that I could look at a problem and figure out how to make it more operationally efficient, which meant that I would take a process and figure out how to make it more scalable and cheaper using technology in some form and what I didn't know at the time was I was also good at Capital Allocation. I didn't even know what the word Capital Allocation meant in 2005, but those were my core strengths and I was like, hey I need to... the business that I'm working on right now, which is domain registration and hosting, that's a large industry, but the largest industry today related to something that I'm good at which is technology, related to the internet, the two most obvious businesses were e-commerce and online advertising. Both of them are large and both of them are growing at double digit plus each year. There was Google and Amazon in both right at that time. There was Google... Actually I would say Amazon was big but I mean at that time it was Amazon was also big and Walmart online was also significant and Sheers online was also significant. So I would say that there were a lot more players there in that and in online advertising, Google in 2005 was for example, not the largest online advertising company. There were other companies that were really large also for example up until after 2005, Yahoo used to be the largest display advertising company in the world and Facebook hadn't even started as far as display advertising was concerned, right? So the market keeps changing and it will keep changing. So at the time, there were a bunch of advertising companies. They were I mean together as an industry, it was a large industry and in e-commerce together as an industry, Mass Merchant E-commerce was a large industry. And so those were two large industries that I was thinking about and then as I started looking at my core strengths, I'm like, hey, I like e-commerce, I know nothing about logistics and it's going to take me longer amount of time to learn. I know nothing about physical delivery. In Online Advertising, you just use a stack and I can figure out how to make this operationally more efficient. So let me get into online advertising. Now the problem with that was I was, in 2005 and this was towards the end of 2005, the first online advertising business, it started in 1995. So I was 10 years late in some sense, right? I wasn't a first mover. In fact, if I look at all my businesses, all the three businesses that I've been involved with... the first one with my brother, where we started domain registration and hosting company, we weren't the first there. We weren’t the first domain name registrar. We weren't, we definitely were not the first web hosting company. Even in the context of India when we started in 1998, we weren’t the first web hosting company. I think we were number 7 or 8 or something like that. As far as the domain registrars are concerned, worldwide, we were the 179th domain registrar worldwide. In terms of the first advertising business that I started in the end of 2005 which was called Skenzo. It was in the domain advertising world and it was literally the last company in that space, that started in that space. Everybody else had started about 7 or 8 years prior to that and when I started media.net in contextual advertising, I was the last contextual advertising company at the time when I started to start. In a lot of companies that started and failed and the primary successful company in that space was Google. So I don't think you know - that was, this goes again back to the point of it doesn't matter when you start, it's a question of starting and then figuring out how to add value and build something over the long term that is cool. So here I was in 2005, I was thinking about online advertising as an industry and they could be you thinking about any industry and you think of it in the same form, which is once you look at the large industry, you look at all the components that make up the industry and then you identify the sub-verticals within the industry in which you can start in. Because you start in any of them. It really doesn't matter which one you start. Pick one where you have some benefit from the resources or knowledge that you have today and the resources doesn't necessarily need to be in any form, capital. It could be you have more knowledge about something. It could be you have some relationships that you can leverage from something else. The idea was “Hey, Maybe I can use some knowledge and relationships that I have from the domaining world where I come from and apply it to advertising and then start building within this niche, which is small with in online advertising world, but still has significant companies that had built significant businesses in that space. So I did that, I started with about 15,000 - 20,000 $, bootstrapped. I started with about 10 associates. I mean, they're people that were fresh out of school. I think most of them were fresh out of their program called BMS. At least 60-70% of them, there were 1 or 2 engineers. But again, those associates... they just basically started. So this was the very beginning of Skenzo in 2005 and I was able to identify a couple of things that the industry wasn't quite doing or hadn’t innovated in some form within that space, and that allowed us within the first month itself to come up with minimum viable product that on testing, worked for the first customer that we on-boarded and then worked for the second and then worked for the third and it started growing very rapidly and in the end of, by the end of the first year, I had a 100 people on Skenzo, all funded through internal accruals because in Month 1 itself as we signed up our first customer, we started making money on that customer. That profit we kept putting back in and it kept growing. And it grew very rapidly. And generally businesses don't necessarily grow that rapidly, so it's something that you can't time. And the advantage which I had with Skenzo was it was my second business. I knew a lot about running businesses and about building teams and about scale by then. Because the first time you do something, you're obviously terrible at doing that, whatever that is. I mean, I'm sure Tiger Woods, the first time that Tiger Woods played golf, he sucked at playing golf just like everybody else. It's when you keep doing something and you keep at it for the long term that you become really good at it because most human beings are capable of absolutely incredible things. So no matter who you are, we are all equally capable. So if as long as we spend enough time doing that one thing and becoming an expert at that one thing we can we can do it right and the advantage I had when I started Skenzo was because it was my second startup, I learned a lot from the first one. So in the first one I had started that with my brother and it started with a capital of $500 or it was 25,000 rupees or whatever the conversion rate was back then. And it had taken us for example, six to seven years to get to our first 100 employees from the time that we started and there were a lot of learnings along that process in terms of “Hey, how do I find people? How do I source people? What type of people I need to hire? What should I ask in an interview? When should I fire someone? How do I grow someone?”. There were so many questions that we didn't know the answers to at all and it was a learning process and the first time around, like I said, it took me six or seven years to get to our first 90-100 people and then the next 100 people we got in the next 12 months and the next 250 people, we got in the next 12 months in businesses that we grew. So in Skenzo, when I started Skenzo with 10 people I was able to grow to a 100 people by the end of year one and it was already generating a million dollars a month in profits as a run rate at the end of 12 months. And it had become the fastest growing company worldwide in that industry segment of domain advertising. End of year 2, same story. I was now at more than 250-300 people and I was now making more than two million dollars a month of profit after tax which then got the company valued at over 200 and something million. We got term sheets around 220-260 million dollar range. So start to finish from when I started Skenzo to two and a half years in. So that was the second business. In that the idea was, you know, I wanted to start in a nation and grow that and that worked out really well, but the bigger plan was online advertising is a massive industry. But so is everything else that most people are working on. Health Care is a massive industry. It's even bigger than online advertising, right? So in most industry verticals, there is there is a lot of money. The one that I picked also was one with growth and size and the idea was now that I’ve built something big within one vertical, how do I then leverage relationships that I've built from this one, leverage the knowledge that I've learned about from this one to build something in mainstream online advertising because if I directly started competing with the giants on day one, I would obviously fail because I don't have the same resources in any form, right? So the idea was that's why pick a niche that some of the giants are not paying as much attention to, so that once you grow in it, now you know enough so you can basically then figure out how to target in the mainstream part of that industry vertical that you are in and when you when you target the mainstream vertical, you need to keep in mind that no matter how big your competitor is, everybody is resource limited. So your competitor might have 10,000 employees or 50,000 employees, but even with 50,000 employees, it generally means that the top management is paying attention only to certain areas. The rest of the areas... They can't pay attention to everything within a large vertical and hence you'll always find pockets of opportunity in whatever you're working on and what you have to do as you start dissecting the data about that industry and about what your competition is doing and there are lots of interesting ways that you can figure out what your competition is doing. Obviously some of them are public so you can read all their public reports including all the analysts reports that are also public. But in addition to that, I found it very useful to generally talk to lots of current employees, ex-employees in all levels, not just the management but also associates, and the middle level. As you talk more to people across the industry, you learn a lot. Interestingly, you'll find that the people are always open to sharing, as long as you're open to sharing. So if you're open to sharing information, you'll find that other people will also share information with you. If you are very closed in the way you share information, I think other people will also kind of be guarded about the way they share information and I found that many people have the information but they don't necessarily use it. So it's very important that when you wear your entrepreneur hat, you figure out not just to be the data hog where you just build a lot of information, you build lots of data sets and identify that hey, I have all this information, but what you really need to do is figure out now not just how to use the data but actually go about using the data on an ongoing basis to improve in whatever it is that you're doing and so in 2010, I started media.net. I was still running Skenzo at the time, but the goal was I always wanted to go mainstream into online advertising and I started a contextual advertising company with media.net. And like I mentioned, it was the last contextual advertising company at the time. There were many others that had come and gone. Some of them were reasonably successful, some of them were not. And this time around, I had more capital so I had about 60-70 people team initially, that started working on it. This time because I had more capital of my own because I made significant amount of money over the years, I would say it cost me about a million of invested capital initially to let the business then start basically building revenues, which allowed me to then get me reinvesting that so I would say, I made losses in that one for the first two years unlike the first two businesses in which I had to be profitable in month 1 or month 1.5 because I didn't have capital in any form. You ran both the businesses in parallel? I did but Skenzo now had a management team of its own, so I didn't need to run it. I'd already already done whatever I could do with Skenzo and my attention was now media.net, it wasn’t Skenzo and I'd sold parts of Skenzo to a Private Equity Fund and then a couple of years later, I bought it back from them and that's another part of the story. So anyways, in media.net, when we started that I said the first two years I'd say we made losses and then, but the idea was I knew what I was working on. This was the third time I was building a business. I knew a lot more about a lot more things from thousands of mistakes that I've made across, you know more than a decade plus working. So this time around I was able to scale that business even faster. It really started growing and picking up speed I would say around the 2012-13 time frame. So I think year 3 is where it really started scaling very, very rapidly and year 4 - year 5, it continued growing and during all this time. Yeah and you'll find that in any startup, It's not... the path is never, “oh, I'm going to grow every month and that's going to last perpetually”. You're going to see lots of volatility all across in any business that you run. There'll be months that you do really well. There'll be months that you do really badly. There'll be times across the time period of you running any company and in all these three companies, I can tell you that there were times where if I look at the business I would have there was a day on which I said, “Oh shit. I think I destroyed the entire business.”, right? So I think I think everybody goes through that no matter how small or large you are. The idea is how do you keep managing risk and that's how I think about running all of these businesses and I would say that that the consistency comes from discipline around managing risk. So as you look at growing each of these businesses, a lot of times people talk about entrepreneurs as oh they are risk takers, I'd say the best entrepreneurs are better at risk management than risk taking. Because that's essentially how you get that consistency because if you just took risks, you will get wild swings and the problem with the wild swings is one of those wild swings could wipe you out entirely. So as you build a business you need to keep figuring out and thinking about what are the top 10 risks or top 20 risks that exist in my business that could wipe me out entirely and know them and have a very rough plan. You don't need to have a detailed plan for anything because all of these things change every quarter, right? So you have a very rough plan saying that okay, if this happens which is a crazy risk that can wipe out my business, I'm going to take Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 at a high level. So, you know what that is and then you continuously keep managing that. So I would say that if I look at my history, my goal has never been to figuring out “Oh, how do I do better this quarter versus last quarter?”. Sure, obviously that is a goal but you can never do that because there are no matter what you do, there are always event risks that will materialize in some form, there are always marketplace risks that will materialize and no matter whether you had the best team, you had all the capital, you had everything going right, you put in the... you did everything right, yet things go wrong and that will always happen. Right? So the goal that I have for myself always is I take a five-year sliding window and every time that I measure myself today in whatever forms you want to measure yourself with, if I look at five years ago have I made progress or have I not made progress? So if you find that you moved in the right direction, then you're doing things in the right form. If you haven't then you need to figure out what went wrong and you need to do that, you know on an ongoing basis. In fact, the way I think of it is on a weekly basis. I look back and I'm like, what could I have done in this week that would have made me more efficient in some form? That would have made... what could I have avoided doing? What could I have avoided spending time on? What could I have had spent time on instead of doing whatever I spent time doing on sort of a thing? And that and as you keep doing that, you will find that, you know, you're paying attention to the right things. And one of the things that I always think about is take every decision or use your resources or time mostly in a form which prioritizes tasks in the descending order of long-term revenue. Got it. That's a great framework.