Tell us who Ashwin is in your real story. Yeah, so, you know, I don't have an educational background. I don't come from a family of business people, but I had started up before so I'm a chartered accountant three Bleak years hard work and then I worked at Citigroup in consumer banking for five years, and then I went to do my MBA at Harvard Business School to me that was actually a pivotal moment because in my summer I interned for an entrepreneur the CEO of JetBlue. Hmm and that was the time when I felt hey, I want to be this guy and so in my final year I entered with what was my first startup travel Guru the business plan contest at Harvard. We came runners-up and finally this is the nice thing about these great institutions are couple of my friends. Actually. Let me my first check $200,000 which back in two thousand four and five was a big amount to raise you kind of intercede so they wrote me this check and they said okay, you know, What go start this and I said, well, that's not what I was planning to do. So I could have gone become a consultant at McKinsey in the New York office. But I kind of felt that you know, if I didn't do this now maybe the opportunity won't exist. So came back started travel Guru and we will eventually acquired by Travelocity but many ups and downs as is true of any entrepreneurs Journeys, but I think a lot of learnings, you know, this what you do in your 20s. A lot of it is just based on kind of energy and Dreams, I think we just second inning. So this is my second startup with Emeritus and arrow dieters. And so in hindsight, there's a lot of wisdom that comes from that but that has been my journey. So, the pivotal thing was that internship with JetBlue. What made you want to do be an entrepreneur? Yeah. So I you know, like I said, I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs. So, in fact, I can tell you this when I decided not to work with Mackenzie and I told my family that they were shocked, you know, my brother by the way, India. The Indian did his PhD in the U.S. Worked in Silicon Valley. So this is the kind of the path that I was supposed to take but I think for me it was, you know at some stage when you get a high quality education like Harvard is that's the best insurance, right? So what is failure? So the first thing I've kind of taught myself is what is failure. Okay start a start-up. Let's say it doesn't do well but is that failure right or is not even attempting to do a start-up is that failure? I think my answer was very clear right now. Even though I wouldn't look back and say travel Guru was a huge startup success for me. It was a success for me from where I come from. It was the foundation on which my current startup which is I think much more of a success from the usual startup metrics, but that Foundation was laid in travel guru, right? So if you change the frame of reference of the definition of success, you know, you really realize that your risk appetite sent to be very different then also the differential failure not starting a start-up is a failure as a very insightful thing and then maybe any key learnings from travel Guru that that help you so many things I so so many things so the you know traveler I did have issues with my co-founders early on and so it was very important for me that I work with a co-founder who I have currently in chaitanya who not only we trust but he's the one person who can look me in the eye and say you're wrong. Right and when you're running a successful company that scaling is very easy to have people around you who say yes. This is great. Let's do it. But you need to have those people who can actually keep you on so having that in a co-founder who you trust implicitly super important. The second thing I think is, you know, so travel going to happen kind of by Design. I was working for a CEO of an airline the Harvard Business Plan contest happen. It was in travel. I have no travel experience. Like I said, no travel no techno start up but this Arrow dieters Emeritus story is More deliberate I really ask myself. Okay, what you can't do as an entrepreneur is predict the outcome of your startup, right? There's so many factors that go beyond just hard work and smart work. But what you can do is to work in a space that you love. So even if you spend 5 10 years and you have little to show for it, you can at least be happy that you spend it in an area that made a difference and for me that was education, right? So the one year that I spent when Travelocity acquired us kind of there was a lock in with them really gave me a lot of time to pause and think about what I want to do. So doing something that you're passionate about. It's mean, it's hard work. It's like 16 18 hours a day. There's no there's a blur between weekends and weekdays, but then why'd you get up on a Monday and say hey, let me go here inspire people to do what they're doing. Let me go and talk to 10 more people to come on board and be part of this journey, you have to love what you do either the product or the business or the transformation. It does to people right? So that was very important. So, lot of entrepreneurs will talk about product Market fit, but there's also a founder Startups it that are you the right person for the startup right at the stage that it is, but also is that business the right thing for you to be it and most people don't think about it because they are outcome is I want to build a billion-dollar companies a unicorn and that's my success metric but you could also think about other success metrics. So for me, these were some of the learnings that I internalized during my travel Guru days the other one which I was taught in business school, but I didn't pay attention is the best of fundraising is from customers. So try to find models where you know, your LTV - CAC is positive soon enough because then you can raise money to really grow versus survive not possible in every business, but that is really helped us scale for the first five years. Like I said, we are bootstrap is because we were in a model that allowed for that. So you mentioned something called founder startup fit maybe elaborate on that a little bit Yeah. So there's a Founder startup fit. It has two things to it's a first is somebody may be very good in starting a company and taking it a 10 million in Revenue rights. But from ten to hundred is that found a still a good fit for that startup in that stage and then hundred to five hundred or something, right? So and this is something that I think most people recognize and you need to be very critical about that and I've seen that in Arrow diet is Emeritus and we're getting to that stage where it's now five hundred people. It's across six countries, you're dealing with many people who actually older than I am who are more work experience who actually ran larger businesses and I have to ask myself every now I think am i the right person to run the company. What skills do I lack? Can I get those skills? Can I hire those skills or in at some stage? I maybe there's a time when I say listen to somebody else better to run this company. So that's the founder startup the other fit is the diverse as well. Right? I you know is the startup is your company the right one for you. So I give you my example right? I'm not a techie. So if I were to start a company that had kind of deep AI or you know, some kind of a And kortek at its core. I probably would not succeed because that is not where I've been greatest value to the company. But what am I good at? I'm good at relationships. I'm good at hiding Talent. I'm good at thinking ambitiously in globally and those skills actually work very well in the current startup. I mean a big part of what we do is to work with universities across the world. Those are relationship building. You need a high degree of trust. You need to inspire their confidence. I believe I bring those skill sets to the startup, right? And so you also have to ask yourself. I mean Right now it might be that fintech is hard and this way I start up so hard robotics startup hard. But if I were to go based on what's hard versus who I am and what I bring to the table, so that's the startup too fond of it, right? So you have to think about both of these usually when you start your first arrived you don't really think about yeah, it's a friend is giving you a call and say hey, can you be my co-founder or you stumble upon this idea and you're somebody's willing to give you your first check so you just started but I guess with a little more maturity your second or third startup. It's worth thinking about this for founder startup View